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Black Dog - "You Can Always Stop Prozac But You Can’t Stop Being Dead"
“I don't mind admitting that I needed Prozac to get through each day (which as Black Sifichi says ‘drags out into eternity’). New drugs have been developed since the Prozac prototype, and they target less of the brain. So it doesn't feel like the rubber sledgehammer that it used to. I think Prozac got a bad press from people without depression taking them and calling them ‘happy pill’. If you are depressed, they are ‘lifesavers’.”
As a bipolar sufferer and self confessed heavy user of both Prozac and later Seroxat, Black Dog legend Ken Downie is eminently qualified to discuss both psychiatric drugs’ ups and downs, not least having happily given both up.
“I don't do any "state" drugs no ; I came to the conclusion that they were drugs of control and sedation, and that I was perfectly right to be feeling the way I was. If I have any problems now, at least they are my own,” he explains.
“But, if anybody out there in Skrufff-land is severely depressed and debating whether or not to take them, I would not hesitate to recommend them,” he quickly adds, “At least with their aid, you will get to fight another day. And that’s all it takes; another day. And you may feel differently. You can always stop taking Prozac . . .but you can't stop being dead.”
The subject of psychiatric drugs has arisen as Ken and his Black Dog compadre Martin Dust admit to using it on the press release accompanying their upcoming new single ‘Floods’, which comes out on Soma Records in December.
“Floods was written under the very heavy influence of Prozac, after a week of intense self medicating certain feelings/actions became absolutely impossible,” they explain, “Listening to people talk and trying to follow what they said just did not compute, by the time they’ve finished talking we’d forgotten what they’d asked. Emotions are masked out of complete reach - drowned if you will, Floods was an attempt to reach those emotions while fighting against the drugs. Floods was created in the studio over a two day period of complete silence - we hope you like it,” they add.
On the same press release they (Black Dog’s third member is Richard Dust) refer to hating people just for ‘being’ though conversing with Skrufff (via email) both are friendly, loquacious and highly entertaining (and brutally honest). As well as promoting Floods they’re also supposed to be plugging the imminent release of their (re-mastered) early 90s Black Dog album Temple Of Transparent Balls, though both seem happier talking about life.
Skrufff (Jonty Skrufff): Starting with the reissue of Temple Of Transparent Balls: why have you decided too re-release it (and why now in particular?)
Black Dog [Martin]: “We decide to put all the back catalogue in order and out of the hands of people who've never paid the band for the release. All the old contracts had run their course.”
Black Dog [Ken]: "Now" is as good a time as any . . . it’s the best sounding version we can.”
Black Dog [Martin]: “Plus it helped that we started working with Soma, they're a great bunch of people who leave us alone and let us do what we do.”
Skrufff: How much do you relate to the music in the same way as when you made it?
Black Dog [Ken]: “It was several lifetimes ago, Jonty, but the spirit is still the same. Back then, I was overjoyed to be pressing our own records, and making a tiny bit of a difference. Now I can fit my entire wall of shop-bought records onto a hard disc. People don't seem to be as ‘moved’ by music as they once were. A good tune used to get people talking, buzzing, and excited. Now you're lucky if you can achieve a momentary ripple in their pond. To answer your question, I'm too f**king livid to ever make ‘that type’ of music again. The world has changed, as well as myself.”
Skrufff: What mindset did you have when you recorded the album in the early 90s? (Were you more idealistic, optimistic, ambitious?)
Black Dog [ken]: “Oh, completely. I was naive, trusting, optimistic, and foolish. I genuinely thought we were a ‘rock and roll’ band, in the tradition of the Sex Pistols, Clash, Damned, etc; Us against the world. Looking back, it was the best way to be, because I had a genuinely excellent time. Over the years I've matured into the view that chasing fame and fortune is an empty pursuit.”
Skrufff: Switching to your new single Flood: the press release talks directly about using Prozac to record it: was it a deliberate experiment or were you already experienced, regular users?
Black Dog [Martin]: “Yes it was deliberate, I've never experienced it before and don't think I would want to again. Don (from Soma) asked us about the tracks and I sent him the notes from the diary.”
Skrufff; What conclusions have you reached from the experiment: will you be planning on doing it again?
[Martin]: “As I don't suffer from anything that the drug was made to fix I'm not sure what I was supposed to be feeling as there was nothing for it to relieve. I personally find it a very controlling and dulling down drug. I could read, drive and make music on it but I couldn't communicate that well and couldn't remember what people had said to me a couple of minutes ago - which was very frustrating as I had to keep asking people to repeat themselves over and over. I found the whole thing an emotional struggle against the floods of false feelings the drugs supply and it also magnified a lot of my emotional feelings - which I also struggled a lot with, as they'd come washing over with the force of coming up on a good E.”
Black Dog [ken]: “No, I'm not going back there again. I ended up resenting the fact that every day was the same. It's great that you don't visit the inky black depths of inner despair; but conversely, you never get to feel any leaping joy, elation, or inner laughter either. What is a life, without both?”
Black Dog [Martin]: “The 'dull" edge on life is certainly not for me but I can see how they help get people through, but I'm not sure if that's living.”
Skrufff: Was staying in total silence for two days when you recorded Flood hard? (Revelatory? transcendent, dull?)
Black Dog [Martin]: “Not really, sometimes we don't need to talk at all while making music, the three of us don't feel the need to fill silence.”
Black Dog [ken]: “Easy.”
Skrufff: How much do you subscribe to the view that struggling aids creativity?
Black Dog [Martin]: “I don't really, it depends what you can take away from the drugs and reapply, it's possible to evoke the feelings the drugs give you but I don't think it often transcends into normal life. E doesn't seem to have done the nation much good, apart from making people more apathetic.”
Black Dog [ken]: “I guess, looking back at the history of recorded music, some form of struggle has helped many artists to fulfil their potential. But I don't "subscribe to the view" that all artists have to be poor to be credible.”
Skrufff: Why did you decide to talk about Prozac, given that most people keep their usage discreet?
Black Dog [Martin]: “We don't have a problem with talking about drugs, more people should because there's a lot to be learnt from it. There's no shame in drugs and with lots of people suffering and using Prozac it would be a much better idea for people to start talking about it.”
Black Dog [ken]: “I guess that's because ‘most’ people are embarrassed about it? Like they are not ‘normal’, or something? The psychiatric drugs are medicinal tools. And, like Martin says, I don't have a problem with talking about my experiences honestly and openly.”
Skrufff: On the press release for Flood you say ‘sometimes other people just get on your nerves, for no reason, just being is enough’: what common characteristics in people tend to irritate you?
Black Dog [Martin]: “It's not irritation, it’s pure hate on some days for me. I've no idea what the reason is but some days I just don't want to be around other people at all.”
Black Dog [ken]: "Hell is other people" ~ Jean Paul Sartre. I can't stand other people's opinions, Jonty. I moved out of cities, so I wouldn't have to suffer their bullshit. I'd quite happily be blasted out into space never seeing another soul again. I don't hate other people; each and every one of them is a star . . . but I'd rather they weren't in my orbit.
What most irritates me about the people of Britain is the fact that we're embroiled in two wars that nobody wanted, and we have an un-elected chancellor telling us what to do. Blair fled, before he could be impeached for war crimes. And the git (IDIOT), Brown (Blair’s successor, Britain’s new Prime Minister Gordon Brown), isn't giving us a chance to vote him out for another two years. Now *that* is irritating.”
Skrufff: How conscious, or concerned, are you, about whether you get on others nerves just through being yourself?
Black Dog [Martin]: “Beyond our family unit I'm not concerned about what others think of me, I know there's only two phases with me, I've either got your back completely or I'm wishing you dead in a hotel fire. There's no middle ground.
Black Dog [ken: “As a bipolar sufferer, I’m immensely concerned. On a downswing, I've learnt not to inflict myself on anybody, I hide away like a hermit monk until the mood has passed. In an upswing, I don't give a f**k what you think about me (because we will both be dead in 100 years anyway).”
Skrufff: What makes you happy?
Black Dog [Martin]: “Music, Art and Reading.”
Black Dog [ken]: “The sublime and the ridiculous (the Tao).”
Skrufff: The title Floods is very topical: how much do you perceive global warming as a threat to society? (How much do you care if places like New York and Miami are swamped?
Black Dog [Martin]: “I think we are f**ked and it may be just too late to reverse things.”
Black Dog [ken: “Funny you should mention it, because hand on heart, I don't care if New York or Miami are swamped. If it could take California with it, I would be over the moon (DELIGHTED). There’s way too much bullshit comes out of America. And I'm so very fucking bored with its politicians, its pseudo-scientific epidemiological Nazism, and its puritanical suppression of the free trade in medicinal herbs. Criminal cartels and terrorist organisations have thrived because of their bullshit. I'd be sorry for the loss of life, obviously. But if it means I can grow what I want in my own garden, and their un-democratic prohibitions are unenforceable, bring it on. Anarchists (along with fat people, smoking people, and drinking people) are waiting to inherit and live in the ruins of capitalism. It won't be pretty. But it may be more free.
You were talking about mindsets earlier? . . Well, this is one that we definitely need to shake off. Capitalism's greed and excess has f**ked the planet. So I hope you understand why I would have little sympathy. It's not that I'm uncaring, or inhuman. Honest.”
Skrufff: You’ve been out of the public eye for much of the last decade, did you ever quit music altogether- start doing day jobs? (if so, what?)
Black Dog [Martin]: Black Dog have only ever taken two years out from recording (production and many remixes happened in the 2 years as well) and you interviewed us two years ago when we released Silenced on Dust Science.”
Black Dog [ken]: “ lol. . . Jonty, we're not pop-tarts. We've not been in the public eye, because there is no wish or desire to be in the public eye. It doesn't help sell records. People just download or copy it from their friends, whatever. All the treadmill of celebrity does is drag you down, and tire you out. With the same questions, again and again. And again. I don't think I could handle working for somebody else anymore. Apart from the break (following deaths of family and friends) the Black Dog has been quite busy over the last 10 years. A look at the discography will tell you that, dude.”
Skrufff: Rave culture has seen millions experimenting with ecstasy; how much do you believe that was about people self-medicating?
Black Dog [Martin]: “I wouldn’t say self-medicating, I'd say escaping from the shitty life and crap that's happening around them the rest of the time.”
Black Dog [ken]: “It was a lost opportunity. The door opened. And we all looked through it. We glimpsed a world where everybody was a brother and sister, united in love. But 99% of the people went back to their day jobs on Monday morning.”
Skrufff: What would you say to an 18 year old considering experimenting with ecstasy today?
Black Dog [ken: “You are an adult. And you must make your own choice. Trust your supplier, because our puritanical and draconian laws have driven the trade of ‘controlled substances’ into the hands of unscrupulous criminals. Be aware that even with pharmaceutically pure MDMA, you *may* (like Leah Betts) die from an allergic reaction. But the chances of this are extremely slim, to say the least. It would not be honest of me to neglect to mention this to you. Remember to drink lots of water. But not too much. And surround yourself with friends and good companions. And I hope you have a good time. Iif it's your first time, don't be tempted to neck six or seven of them at once; Just the one, eh?”
Skrufff: What do you make of today’s club culture?
Black Dog [ken]: “Different generation now, isn't it, Jonty? The vibe it reminds me of northern soul all-niters. But there are no cigarettes, and everything is a little bit too squeaky clean and nice. Some venues are like ‘keep fit’ clubs, with people posing and posturing, others are more down to earth. Bit of a mixed bag, I suppose. Different cities, different scenes, hasn't it always been that way?”
Black Dog [Martin]: “I still enjoy it and there's still a lot of good people and promoters out there, so while it's still fun, I guess we'll still be involved.”
Skrufff: Any plans/ ambitions to perform live as Black Dog?
Black Dog [Martin]: “We've been playing live for the last two years, where've you been Jonty :)”
Black Dog [Ken]: “I dislike "performing", but with these guys, playing out live is good fun, and tolerable.”
Skrufff: Anything else to add?
Black Dog [ken]: “Anarchist communists believe that the value of labour cannot be measured, since the value of every creation is relative to the creator, and the creation of all products is made possible by the labour of past generations.
Black Dog [martin]: “ The new album is about to drop any month soon and we'll see you in some shitty hole with our beats.”
Temples Of Transparent Balls is out shortly on Soma Records as is Floods.
http://www.myspace.com/blackdogfans
Jonty Skrufff (Skrufff.com)Featured Tracks:
| Book of Dogma - Album (109:01) | |||||
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Artist: The Black Dog Label: Soma Genre: Techno (Deep, Tribal) Release Date: 2007-03-18 
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| Temple Of Transparent Balls - Album (67:21) | |||||
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Artist: The Black Dog Label: Soma Genre: Techno Release Date: 2007-10-14
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